Balance of Custom MVP Cards and Sinx Link [closed]

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Re: Balance of Custom MVP Cards and Sinx Link [closed]

Post by thraca »

First off just wanted to say thanks everyone that has contributed to the discussion above so far. Im interested in Frills idea of a slight potion delay. Maybe that would be a worthy implementation to offset the ability for tanks to out-pot most damage with the over-abundance of boss cards in pvp here?

-thraca / Tier One
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Re: Balance of Custom MVP Cards and Sinx Link

Post by Azure »

Most likely an unpopular opinion, but I would like to throw something to think about. I know the server's intent is stay as vanilla as possible. However, pre-renewal had updates past episode 12 because the gameplay became stale, these customs are just a tiny glimpse of hope for build expansion past the 1-2 meta builds for each class. It's awesome that you can create a build with 99dex / 99str and an aspd of 190! You can counter this; it may not be easy but it's doable and may require the defending user to create a build that is outside of the normal meta.

Hell, I'd love to see FO champ with these stats fly around with BO + 2 Kiel + 2 Berz. Just think how fun that would be!

I agree with pot delay. 99/70 PVP is always just a race to see who can heal the fastest. If I have more Ygg berries than you and my auto pot is turned on, I don't even NEED to think about when to heal...

Also, just to point out and add insult to injury: The server has no client protection / anti cheat system...I don't think the card edits are a problem, I think the surrounding elements are!
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GM Oreki
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Re: Balance of Custom MVP Cards and Sinx Link [closed]

Post by GM Oreki »

Hi everyone,

Thank you thraca for making this request and thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts on this. All opinions are very valued and greatly appreciated.

My impression of this request is that it was made with the assumption that "official settings are what's balanced because they are official and all we need to do to achieve balance here as well is to revert the skill / mvp card settings back to be like official". Which is unfortunately wrong.

The fact we need to remember here is that official settings are sometimes broken. Take GTB card official effect for a clear example, it makes all magic classes useless, high priest, professor, high wizard, matk stalker, matk ninja and others. It's nowhere near balanced when it's accessible to everyone and it's even more unfair when only a few people have it.

Keeping GTB in its original setting is bad.
Removing it altogether is bad as well because GTB is the only counter for dispel, coma and similar.

Our modification for it to have 100% effect vs monsters and 50% vs players preserves the original / official gameplay vs monsters and at the same time balances the originally broken PvP experience. So we get the best in both worlds.


Let's imagine for a moment that Doppelganger card effect in our server was normal, half of the classes would be significantly weaker than others. Take whitesmith for example, without doppel on, it won't have as much vit and without as much vit, you can wear the top gear available in the game that may take months to get and you will still die by a single sonic blow from an assassin cross with starter gear farmed in mere minutes.

Even if the whitesmith is wearing TGK, the assassin cross would only need to freeze with "Throw Knife" wearing 4 marina cards (normal monster card), then switch to Infiltrator and SB with wind converter for the extra elemental damage and the whitesmith is dead.

The same argument is with Thanatos card and assassin Soul Link even if the whitesmith has 99 VIT.


"Change to balance things out" is inevitable, the only thing we can do about it is control the manner in which we do it.

The way servers typically go about this is to change everything, skill effects, item effects, creating custom equipment... eventually the whole experience becomes different and even then the balance sought after is not guaranteed, it becomes a never ending loop of modifications and it rarely ends well.

What we're doing here at MindRO is cleverly making minimum modifications and only enabling them vs players to preserve the original PvM experience, allowing even old players who don't have the time to learn new things play and enjoy our server (like some players mentioned in their posts), and balance the PvP aspect of the game.


I can assure you that there is a way to kill every single class (paladin included). You just have to learn more about MVP cards (and the full extent of what you can do with the few custom modifications we have).

Just to give a few tips:
    • Incantation Samurai card ignores the defense stat, it's recommended for all melee damage that works with damage modifiers (example: Cart Termination doesn't work with this).
    • Stormy Knight card is mandatory against Ghostring and TGK cards for some classes. For example if you're a champion and you want to kill a paladin with Ghostring or TGK, you need to do the first asura with Stormy Knight in weapon to lower the opponent's HP and freeze them making them unable to use potions then do a second asura with the full damage weapon to kill with their HP lowered. You will also need to wear TGK on your second asura to survive the reflect. An other example is a LK with 1 Stormy and wind converter against TGK, it makes spamming pots difficult for the opponent and you also do more damage if they don't wear an anti-freeze card.
    • Doppelganger card is good for high wizards as well to spam Jupiter Thunder with Berserk Potion because JT depends on aspd. There is Maya card to counter this but if you can get your opponent by surprise you can kill before they manage to swap because the damage is just too much. Play style is important to affect what your opponent wears and when.
    • and more...
    The beauty of this is that equipment, regardless of how good it is, is only but a one factor. The other important factor is skill and ability to adapt and swap according to situations. Players who can do this will be the ones who are truly strongest in our server. It's not only about gear.

    In most servers equipment decides everything, and when 2 opponents with equal equipment clash, it's just a war of who has more potions or who will cast the OP skill first on the other. Being not like this is as far as we can get regarding balance. Our card modifications will always remain the same, none will be removed.

    I hope this is satisfactory.

    This topic is closed.

    If anyone wants to discuss this further, feel free to open a discussion on General Discussions

    Thanks to everyone again!
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