Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

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princekos
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Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

Post by princekos »

Hi GM Oreki and everyone,

I post this request about Item ID# 5225 Parade Hat, which seems odd or smells bug on its script about Lex Aeterna after heal when you are using Acolyte/Priest/High Priest/ Archbishop class, but also Monk, Champ, Sura, etc which has Acolyte as their baseclass also can do that. For me it seems like not as the purpose. So I suggest to reconsider that Monk, Champ, Sura can also do Lex Aeterna after Heal, better to take these jobs off.

And for the players, I know that this topic has been debated on Discord, but I just want to make it more structured, so every opinions regarding this topic also welcome.

There are my statements for supporting this as bug on script:

1. No standard of truth. Everything is debatable.
I checked about several items on RMS, Hercules Item DB, rAthena, and descriptions on RO Client. There are a lot of bugs and differences, description and script doesnt match. So there is no standard of true which is the right one. Even the official server can also do some adjustments.

But on this point, let us assume item description as source of truth, we see some bugs on scripts.

For example:
a. Item 13418. description on client cast Lex Divina when user cast pressure, but on RMS and rAthena its script cast Lex Aeterna after Pressure https://ratemyserver.net/index.php?inam ... rch=Search

We can say RMS and rAthena wrong about the script, but Hercules isn’t. On Hercules server it is Lex Divina not Lex Aeterna. So RMS cannot be trusted 100% as source of truth.

b. Item 5225 on this topic: https://forum.mindro.org/viewtopic.php?t=214 reported Hercules also have a bug on the script.And GM Oreki also do the correction. And to continue the request I also state that there is another bug from Hercules on its script.

It also happen for item 2384: Spiritual Tunic https://ratemyserver.net/index.php?inam ... rch=Search, which is not exist for player on this server, but it states “Decreases 20% damage from Neutral and Water property.” But the standard Hercules Script do the reverse. You can check the Tunic script.

So I state Hercules script also cannot be trusted 100%. If anyone think this item is must be the original, I think after the correction from https://forum.mindro.org/viewtopic.php?t=214 now it become not original, but customized. So there is no one can say we must follow Hercules Script as source of truth because we don’t want costumized items.

2. BaseClass == Job_Acolyte or Class == Job_Acolyte ??
- The Hercules script use BaseClass == Job_Acolyte, which is mean that every job which has Acolyte as their BaseJob can do this Heal-LexAeterna effect.
- And Class == Job_Acolyte it means that only Acolyte return the true value, so it is not for Priest, Monk, High Priest, Champ, etc.

But I think this is a bug from Hercules original Developer, also for RMS and rAthena, when we assume item description as the truth. Because on item desc, it state “If the user is an Acolyte, Priest , High Priest or Arch Bishop class”, it means Acolyte as class / job, not as Base Job.

If they mean it also for Champ or Monk or Sura, it must be put on the list, or they can remove “Priest, High Priest, or Arch Bishop” on the description, because it is obvious that Priest branch has Acolyte as their base Job, so don’t need to put on the description. So according to the description I think Monk branch excluded for casting Heal-Lex which is the original developer purpose on this item according to the description.

The original scripter can also do mistake when put the code “if BaseClass == Job_Acolyte”, because it doesn’t match with the description. It must be “if Class ==Job_Acolyte || Class ==Job_Priest)” if they want to match to the description.
I assume we all agree the original developer can also do mistake, so GM Oreki and the other PS developer also do some bug fixing and adjustment. Also the official server can do some adjustment to make the game balance.

3. Item Purpose and some imbalance.
In my opinion, Lex Aeterna is one of the signature skill of Priest, and isn’t appropriate for Champ. Champ can do double dmg easily without Priest make Priest Job seems useless at this case. And consider that Monk / Champ has the most highest dmg skill on RO Trans Prerenewal mechanics, Asura Strike, and it can be multipled so easily using Heal-Lex Aeterna using this item, it is huge for server balances. I guess it also on the original developer mind when its description is for Acolyte and Priest branch class, not listed Monk and Champ on the description.

Despite this will be fullfiled or not, I personally do not have huge problem about this. But this item seems make the game little odd for me, and some imbalance. But I know there is no absolute imbalance, it can be debatable, and also everything has weakness. I also get some advantages using this. And for disadvantages I already conquered. So I don’t complain but challenge the truth about this item. Because it seems a bug.

Thanks for the attention.
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GM Oreki
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Re: Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

Post by GM Oreki »

Hi princekos,

Thank you for posting this. You make some sound points.

But in short, we would only modify an item if it's indeed imbalanced after considering everything that's available.

Right now, it's possible to counter Lex Aeterna with a number of ways; GTB, Angeling, Guard, Parry, Kaupe... and it can't be cast on frozen or stoned targets meaning it doesn't have a big difference on the most effective builds to resist the champion class. Adding that we have Assumption scrolls available for everyone, the item doesn't seem that imbalanced.

I will move this to General Discussions for more inputs before revisiting the topic.

Thank you

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princekos
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Re: Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

Post by princekos »

GM Oreki wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:25 pm Hi princekos,

Thank you for posting this. You make some sound points.

But in short, we would only modify an item if it's indeed imbalanced after considering everything that's available.

Right now, it's possible to counter Lex Aeterna with a number of ways; GTB, Angeling, Guard, Parry, Kaupe... and it can't be cast on frozen or stoned targets meaning it doesn't have a big difference on the most effective builds to resist the champion class. Adding that we have Assumption scrolls available for everyone, the item doesn't seem that imbalanced.

I will move this to General Discussions for more inputs before revisiting the topic.

Thank you
Agreed, GM Oreki.
At my point 3, it isnt imbalance in some circumtances, a lot of tricks to prevent that lex, especially for GVG or on party. But might be imba when you are one on one against champ, which they can multiply their dmg easily, because it isnt cast by chance, but can redo alot. When you are using GTB you take down defenses so easy to do Asura and make a great damage instead. On Guard / Parry / Kaupe it can be casted so easily when its fail. They can do recast. Big advantages but not imba maybe the best description for this case.

But my main point of this rejection is about point 2. is that the right script for this item from official?
Addition: I found kRO Item description for this item on data.grf on -> data\idnum2itemdesctable.txt

5225#
착용하면 어디선가 성스러운 음악이 귓가에 울려퍼지며 힘이 솟아나는 모자.
성스러운 가호를 받고 있기에, 적에게 공격을 받았을 때 천사가 보호해 준다고 한다.
공격당할 시, 일정 확률로 안젤루스 5스킬 발동. 낮은 확률로 아숨프티오 1레벨 발동.
MDEF + 2, 스턴 내성 10% 증가.
복사, 프리스트일 경우, 적에게 힐 스킬 사용 시, 100% 확률로 렉스 에테르나 1레벨 발동.
계열 : ^777777투구^000000 방어 : ^7777774^000000
위치 : ^777777상단^000000 무게 : ^77777720^000000
요구레벨 : ^77777710^000000
장착 : ^777777전직업 장착가능^000000

You may translate this original KRO description for this item, it state Acolyte and Priest classes. Priest classes are Priest, High Priest, Archbishop and so on. Acolyte only spelled as Class not base classes or classes. And on RMS it state Acolyte, Priest, High Priest, AB, more clearly than the RO client said. It doesnt mention for Monk or Acolyte Classes (if acoltye as classes which means they didnt need to write Priest classes, because Priest is an Acolyte classes).. so i think it is must be a bug from RMS / Hercules. because they just make rAthena or Hercules as simulator of the official, some script must be exist for differences, because it isnt official Ragnarok program. it just open-source simulator which has contributors, it means can be wrong on its script rather than the official. So script cannot be trusted.

So RMS can be wrong to present the description. when they put BaseClass == Job_Acolyte it must be wrong.. and a lot of items that I have listed above, a lot of wrong scripts. Im understand it as Software Engineer also when can do mistake when scripting

I think asura is already strong skill, with lex aeterna which is not its purpose for monk (on its description) make a great combo..
Last edited by princekos on Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:04 am, edited 6 times in total.
princekos
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Re: Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

Post by princekos »

복사, 프리스트일 경우, 적에게 힐 스킬 사용 시, 100% 확률로 렉스 에테르나 1레벨 발동.

In the case of Acolyte or Priest, when using a heal skill on an enemy, there is a 100% chance to activate Rex Ether or level 1.

additional info for translate :)
rohann01
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Re: Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

Post by rohann01 »

I agree on this+1, I agree Parade Hat is not supposed to be able for Monk to cast Lex Aeterna.
It make champion dmg so high and easy to spam.
It should be a damage for class balancing
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Re: Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

Post by datas_nero1 »

I can't believe this is still on going. You guys need to be more creative. Considering the availability of all buffs scroll in the server. There is a certain paladin and scholar build where it is impossible to kill them with asura even freeze-asura-freeze, without lex.

For example when you got lex. just use hide. Ruwach will deactivate the debuff when they use it against you.

Also, even with the availability of this hat. It will still boil down to creativity and wits.
Read GM Oreki's notes and read between the lines.

Also RMS tend to have wrong or misleading descriptions. You should rely on the Item script. You may also want to check rocalc.com as it gives a proper description on every items.
princekos
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Re: Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

Post by princekos »

Just as i said before. I dont have problem facing anyone who use that. But my intention was it is proper for cham? Or just miss script on Rms?
Read it that carefully..

Anw I can make 600k asura to player without brynhild, or 900k-1M with that..and i can multiple those using lex. Become 1.5-2M. and hiding wont help you. I can cast box of gloom or sight. Not using lame ruwach for that.

And if you cant kill prof without using lex, cmon ask me,.i can tell you how.
Last edited by princekos on Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:27 am, edited 4 times in total.
princekos
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Re: Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

Post by princekos »

And all of my suggestion not based on how imbalance that is, but i give you some original script from KRO.. anw I still have a lot of rms bugs that i can tell Oreki.. and you must know that i am one of the most creative person on this RO.

I am not a newbie you should tell how to against something imbalance. Therefore, every imbalance things have weakness. I 100% agree about it
Last edited by princekos on Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
princekos
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Re: Parade Hat, Description vs Script ?

Post by princekos »

RMS has a lot of things which are false against its original description.. and for now i will take the list and post it later... you need to know that i gave the kro item description, also github for that item for hercules. That means i know the original hercules script there.

Anw if you suggest rcalculator or something like that. I tell you there is no one accurate calculator exist. I tried almost of all.. if you want to calculate well just read C code of this game. Especially on github.. if you can read code.

Im sorry I dont want to show some arrogance but you need to consider your data first before you state something embarrassing

Bye.
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