MindRO

Posted: **Thu Nov 28, 2024 5:01 pm**

Gav! wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:10 pm For KoE I suggest:
1.) Disable multi-client.
- Disagree. Fran already stated what needs to be stated. Also cant experiment if disabled.

2.) Increase the current KoE Emperium HP to 2x. If Sacrifice skill will remain working on KoE Emp, increase HP to 3x.
- Agree with the x2 but not agree on x3 even if the Sacrifice skill is still enabled. Sacri Pally is just so easy to counter.

3.) Make Safety Wall and Pneuma work on KoE Emp again.
- Agree. Also in WoE.

4.) Remove all buffs when entering KoE Map, and have a timed-spawn room with basic NPC buffer like in BG.
- Retain the common skills like Agi, Bless, EDP, Improve Concentration, Energy Coat etc when warp to KoE Map. You should be able to fight when warped in KoE or WoE map and not buffing.

5.) Disable E-Call function. Related to #4.
- Disagree. Ecall is a very important tactical skill.

Posted: **Fri Nov 29, 2024 6:27 pm**

fran wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 4:11 am +1

- Love the idea of defending a flag as opposed to an emperium. This is possible for BG as there's only 2 teams so curious if this could be implemented in KOE where there could be multiple guilds playing.

Curious to know what the rationale is behind these two:

Gav! wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:10 pm For KoE I suggest:
1.) Disable multi-client.

Multi client does not give unfair advantage - it's one player controlling the characters at the end of the day. If they can do that effectively, I don't know why they should be penalized. Considering that there are times when numbers are low, you have to dual-client to have a somewhat decent line up.

5.) Disable E-Call function. Related to #4.

Instead of disabling e-call, removal of buffs should be applied whether you spawn normally or ecalled in.
Suggestions:

- Have a minimum guild level to participate in KOE. Recently, there has been a situation where one player would break the emp, kick everyone out, disband guild, create new guild, break emp, kick everyone out, and repeat. Having a minimum guild level would prevent this from happening/being abused.

- Update KOE map

- Open new WoE castle(s)

My rationale for disabling KoE multi-client is that the event is intended for small groups (judging from the possible rewards) and that it's really just a small room. If we want interesting skill interactions like alt Bragi + HWizard gameplay, it's better to just have a teammate do it since winning is just 1 point. It just doesn't seem worth all that trouble and artificially boosting 'numbers'. It's just KoE anyway, unlike WoE where there's more time and space to fight. In WoE since the space is huge and there's actually more than 1 crucial place to fight in, the challenge for multi-client is getting the chars in proper places, in the proper time. KoE can be abused easily by camping alt chars/buffers in the middle and then just main which ever one doesn't die, that's not even touching on outside buffs being carried inside (ie. Ensemble party should be played by 2 actual live people, not 1 main and 1 alt).

As for disabling E-Call in KoE: it's only because I'm suggesting a spawn room mechanic like in BG - it wouldn't make sense to e-call if we're adding a spawn room to steer away from outside buffs. My rational for the spawn room is to discourage outside buffs and work more with your team inside the event, and not just gung-ho die and respawn mindlessly. Granted, the Assumptio scroll wouldn't "work" anymore this way but it was always disabled in official mechanics. The spawn room Basic NPC Buffer would have Bless, Agi, Full Heal, Repair, remove some debuffs; also EDP doesn't disappear when you die - this is the same mechanic as in BG.

Posted: **Sat Nov 30, 2024 2:55 am**

Gav! wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2024 6:27 pm it's better to just have a teammate do it since winning is just 1 point. It just doesn't seem worth all that trouble and artificially boosting 'numbers'.

Seems redundant because obviously who would want to dual client if you can have someone fill that specific role. Going back to my point of dual clienting not giving any unfair advantage. Doesn't seem worth all the trouble since like you said, winning is just 1 point ♥

Posted: **Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:53 pm**

fran wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 2:55 am
Gav! wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2024 6:27 pm it's better to just have a teammate do it since winning is just 1 point. It just doesn't seem worth all that trouble and artificially boosting 'numbers'.
Seems redundant because obviously who would want to dual client if you can have someone fill that specific role. Going back to my point of dual clienting not giving any unfair advantage. Doesn't seem worth all the trouble since like you said, winning is just 1 point ♥

Hi Fran. I don't know what you mean by my answer being redundant, because you were curious about my rationale and I only explained it.

Also, just to point it out, dual/multi-client by definition is equivalent to redundancy, so it seems that you are -for- redundant things...

Yes. Multi-client is redundant in KoE and prone to abuse (unfair advantage) - kinda like the Dice game, where you can multi inside the event.

Posted: **Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:34 pm**

Gav! wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:53 pm Hi Fran. I don't know what you mean by my answer being redundant, because you were curious about my rationale and I only explained it.

Also, just to point it out, dual/multi-client by definition is equivalent to redundancy, so it seems that you are -for- redundant things...

Yes. Multi-client is redundant in KoE and prone to abuse (unfair advantage) - kinda like the Dice game, where you can multi inside the event.

Hi Gav.

Your answer was not redundant

Having people who can fill roles would make dual-clienting redundant. You also can't compare dual-clienting in KOE to Dice. Like I mentioned previously, dual-clienting in KOE does not provide unfair advantage because one player controls the clients and they have to do that effectively for it to have an impact. Dual-clienting in Dice and placing one character per box guarantees a win, therefore making dual-clienting an unfair advantage.

The topic of dual-clienting being abused should be focused more on BG and DS where people quite literally abuse by logging multiple clients that AFK and getting rewards.

Posted: **Sun Dec 01, 2024 4:57 am**

fran wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:34 pm
Gav! wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:53 pm Hi Fran. I don't know what you mean by my answer being redundant, because you were curious about my rationale and I only explained it.

Also, just to point it out, dual/multi-client by definition is equivalent to redundancy, so it seems that you are -for- redundant things...

Yes. Multi-client is redundant in KoE and prone to abuse (unfair advantage) - kinda like the Dice game, where you can multi inside the event.
Hi Gav.

Your answer was not redundant

Having people who can fill roles would make dual-clienting redundant. You also can't compare dual-clienting in KOE to Dice. Like I mentioned previously, dual-clienting in KOE does not provide unfair advantage because one player controls the clients and they have to do that effectively for it to have an impact. Dual-clienting in Dice and placing one character per box guarantees a win, therefore making dual-clienting an unfair advantage.

The topic of dual-clienting being abused should be focused more on BG and DS where people quite literally abuse by logging multiple clients that AFK and getting rewards.

Well I can understand if you feel it isn't unfair, but I hope you can also understand if I feel that it is. Feelings differ for everyone.

As long as we're not disputing the fact that it is very prone to abuse - again I've cited examples of it on other event modes.

Posted: **Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:28 pm**

Gav! wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 4:57 am Well I can understand if you feel it isn't unfair, but I hope you can also understand if I feel that it is. Feelings differ for everyone.

As long as we're not disputing the fact that it is very prone to abuse - again I've cited examples of it on other event modes.

I know feelings differ hence why we are having a discussion about it. I am not saying that your thoughts are invalid, I asked questions to try to understand better which at this point, I still don't. I don't understand the relevance of dual-clienting in KOE vs. Dice, as per your example because they are two very different things which I explained in my previous post.

I feel very differently about dual-client in KOE being very prone to abuse and it's okay that we disagree on that.

This thread is being recommended for implementation so I'm sure Oreki would appreciate different perspectives being shared before making a decision.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2024 5:38 am**

Can you make list which moment for opening dual client make GVG unbalance?

Or maye just limit into 2 login each IP

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2024 3:42 pm**

princekos wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 5:38 am Can you make list which moment for opening dual client make GVG unbalance?

Or maye just limit into 2 login each IP

Hey Eric, here's a sample list:
- Having alt Bragi and alt Linkers inside at the same time. This affects what build you choose to make to play KoE.

-Alt ensemble parties with Brisingamens that can be protected by a live Devo Paladin. Looking closely at Invulnerable Seigfried.

-Alt Sniper(s) that are only there for traps and ankle snares. For an event that is time-sensitive, delay tactics and skills from alts are abusable. It's hard to main a Sniper, but someone must play it - it's not an excuse to rely on alt always.

-alt Soul Linkers that are just there to reflect magic equipped with "receive-more-damage" gears.

Etc.

I don't want to hijack your thread, and I'm sure a player of your skill level can think of more, but my point is - the question of "Is it time to disable it for KoE" has always been there. I'm just saying at this late phase, with the possibility of new players still joining, maybe let's keep the game King of Emperium instead of King of Multi-client. The satisfaction is still there, if someone is good enough to play multiple chars, just do it one at a time and re-enter - it's not really a penalty, just a restriction.

A new player should feel "hey, maybe I can join GvG too with some farming" instead of "holy crap I need to make lots of characters just to even have a role in gvg". KoE is a stepping stone to WoE, let's keep the bar of entry reasonable, that's all I'm saying.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2024 8:50 pm**

How do these examples make KOE imbalanced? Literally any player/guild have the opportunity to use those examples, if they so choose.

Taking away dual-client because it's "better" to have a player play Gypsy and Clown to play ensembles is unrealistic. Sometimes there's no one to even play clown, let alone find TWO players to have gypsy and clown just to play ensemble?

Can you also speak on the fact that some people have multiple computers and can switch from one computer to another? Why should they have the privilege to play multiple clients? This is the issue that is happening in BG and DS, not KOE. This is imbalanced because not everyone has the privilege to own more than one computer.

Gav! wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 3:42 pm I'm just saying at this late phase, with the possibility of new players still joining, maybe let's keep the game King of Emperium instead of King of Multi-client.

A new player should feel "hey, maybe I can join GvG too with some farming" instead of "holy crap I need to make lots of characters just to even have a role in gvg". KoE is a stepping stone to WoE, let's keep the bar of entry reasonable, that's all I'm saying.

"Late phase" & "new players" in the same sentence is contradictory. New players have not put in the same grind as existing players so of course, their playing experience would be different. It has never been King of Multi-client, it has been King of Last Minute breaking. As someone who has played in a few guilds in this server, no one has ever expected a new player to play multiple clients. All guilds have been welcoming and encourage new players to play whatever they enjoy playing. We all have some accountabilities to set our new players up for success whether that be help leveling, providing gears, sharing builds, etc. That alone makes KOE inclusive to all players, old and new.

MindRO

Increase KOE Emp max Hp [fulfilled]

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp

Re: Increase KOE Emp max Hp