Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps [closed]

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thraca
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Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps [closed]

Post by thraca »

Propose to remove @warp command (but not @jump or @jumpback) for high tier mvp maps such as:
  • lhz_dun03 (bio3 mvp)
  • moc_fild22 (wounded satan morroc)
  • abbey03 (beelzebub)
  • thor_v03 (ifrit)
  • odin_tem03 (valkyrie randgris)
  • thana_boss (thanatos)

This would promote traditional competition over these MVPs and remove the over abundance of their respective end game items on the market place, which will also help set a proper economy for these items.

Currently the system allows whoever is able to land the coordinates first using @jump a major advantage over anybody else (its one thing to find the MVP and get a single asura, its another to land 5 asuras before another player is able to find it on a large map such as moc_fild22). After obtaining the coordinates of these MVPs, players can abuse @warp (ex: @warp moc_fild22 139 274) to warp directly onto the cell of WSM over and over indefinitely.

Being able to portal asura over half of the strongest MVPs in pre-renewal map wide is very over powered and takes away from a lot of the intent of having high tier MVPs in the first place in my opinion (actual teamplay with certain roles necessary to defeat these end game bosses).

If it is desired to portal asura an MVP such as Bio3 it should be lured to the proper location (entrance) to portal asura rather than the furthest corner of the map where nobody has a chance to compete. This does not mean characters are not able to char select a champion in a specific location and lure an MVP such as WSM to it to guarantee first hit which is another common tactic.

Private MVP room does not allow players to directly @warp on top of the MVP coordinates so I believe that is fair to stay unchanged as you are essentially purchasing the opportunity to "field" the MVP on a smaller map (with a time limit).

note: This proposal is not to effect any other MVP's such as RSX-0806, Doppelganger, Golden Thief Bug etc.

second note: The @jumpback command can currently be utilized to abuse the same feature of @warp although much less convenient. If the player asuras an MVP and uses @jump immediately after, his next @jumpback will land in front of the mvp again (which can be repeated over and over for potentially the same effect as @warp if the champion can recharge fast enough with yggdrasil berries, fresh bragi or very high dex).

Hope for an engaged discussion with this one because I realize its a big suggestion and quite game changing compared to other development requests I have seen in this forum.

-thraca / Tier One
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piggybank
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Re: Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps

Post by piggybank »

thraca,

While your concerns are valid it creates another problem. The server user base is pretty small right now and out of those numbers an even smaller portion of the population can handle the few places you mentioned. Without a healthy size party and some well-equipped characters that leaves a lot of those players out of having a chance at those high level MVP.

Without mentioning names there already seems to be a clique of high level/knowledgeable MVP'ers that will be able monopolized those areas. Once again, your concerns are valid, but until we have a healthy numbers of players we can just leave it to chance or if anyone can come up with a better solution so that no one monopolized a certain MVP I'd certainly would welcome it.

-piggybank
thraca
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Re: Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps

Post by thraca »

Hi piggy,

Thanks for understanding the point behind this post. In all fairness isn't the reality of this game supposed to be only those that are actually well equipped with the proper knowledge and ability should be the only ones to kill these MVP's? Those who will control these MVP's eventually get challenged by others. Others failing to win the MVP will observe methods used and can only learn and improve their own tactics by watching it be performed if they compete for it.

The more I think about this topic it seems more and more like a very heavy customization to the playstyle of RO MVPing. I understand the warper is a huge QoL addition to most private servers, however a super buffed console command warper (what @warp with access to use specific coordinates essentially is) seems a bit too strong. I feel like I have GM privilege when im warping to these maps for the @warp tactic half the time lol.

note: with 100% equip drops, all other players should have a fighting chance to get to the point of being well equipped to compete for these MVPs! All that is needed is the knowledge which either contesting or a quick google search can assist with.

-thraca / Tier One
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Re: Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps

Post by piggybank »

In all fairness isn't the reality of this game supposed to be only those that are actually well equipped with the proper knowledge and ability should be the only ones to kill these MVP's?
Oh, I definitely do agree to a certain point. Since this is also a private server I feel that everyone should be able enjoy all the contents of the game that they weren't able to on a regular server (I know that's why I chose to play p.server over official server).
Those who will control these MVP's eventually get challenged by others.
Yes, again, this falls back onto the current population of the server. If you look, we have around 50-70 players on at any given time and 15-20 are people vending. There are select fews that do high-level MVPs regularly and are outstanding at it (you including). Taking the @warp command away; even in those select maps will only further the distance for us "regular" players.
Others failing to win the MVP will observe methods used and can only learn and improve their own tactics by watching it be performed if they compete for it.
Agreed 100%. Learn from your mistake and watch those who are better than you to improve.
The more I think about this topic it seems more and more like a very heavy customization to the playstyle of RO MVPing. I understand the warper is a huge QoL addition to most private servers, however a super buffed console command warper (what @warp with access to use specific coordinates essentially is) seems a bit too strong. I feel like I have GM privilege when im warping to these maps for the @warp tactic half the time lol.
I wouldn't say warping to a certain point in the map is "heavy customization ", but it does feel like cheating. I don't disagree with you one bit that we do need to level the playing field for all players so that we all get our chance at it.

I am enjoying my time here on this server. I get to do things and have equipments/gears that I would NEVER in a million years obtain if I were to play the official server. Isn't this why most of us are here in the first place? At the end of the day, this is just a game and I am here to have fun after a long day of work.

note: with 100% equip drops, all other players should have a fighting chance to get to the point of being well equipped to compete for these MVPs! All that is needed is the knowledge which either contesting or a quick google search can assist with.
For sure, but some of us just get there faster and those that get left behind will have a harder time catching up.

I hope you know this is not meant to go against your request, but just giving my 2cents in regards to the current situation.

Again, I welcome all opinions in regards to any in-game issues so, we, as players can have a healthy discussion and work towards a solution that all of us can agree on.
Last edited by piggybank on Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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thraca
thraca
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Re: Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps

Post by thraca »

Valid feedback Piggy!

Hoping to get some more viewpoints here soon.

-thraca / Tier One
emotang
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Re: Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps

Post by emotang »

Here's my 2cents after playing the server for 2 days.

@warp is a great command, and when used in the specific situation for warping to specific coordinates i 100% agree on SOME mvp maps this should be stopped. My only discrepancy would be for bio3

HOWEVER

The best way to fix the warp issue, add the MVPS to bloody branches. They are essentially 7m zeny (which on 100% drop is easy as hell to get), bloody branches with bio/sm/etc included would make this a much less of a issue. Not to mention i feel like for the admins that would be a much easier ask than disabling coordinate warping on specific maps.
emotang
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Re: Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps

Post by emotang »

Plus beez, ifirit, VR, and thana are already in bloody branches. Would only need to add bio mvps and SM
thraca
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Re: Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps

Post by thraca »

Hey Emo,

I want to let you know that these two MVPs (Bio 3 and WSM) are both spawnable within the Private MVP Room. There is an NPC Healer in the center once renting the room that allows players to spend 20,000,000 zeny to spawn an MVP of choice (excluding instance MVPs like Nidhoggur) or 10,000,000 zeny to spawn a miniboss of choice.
@warp is a great command, and when used in the specific situation for warping to specific coordinates i 100% agree on SOME mvp maps this should be stopped. My only discrepancy would be for bio3
Would you expand on this regarding the Bio3 map (lhz_dun03)? Im curious if you mean this is the only map you think should remain or be taken away from the above list.

-thraca / Tier One
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GM Oreki
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Re: Removal of @Warp command for high tier MVP maps [closed]

Post by GM Oreki »

Hi everyone,

I understand that the reasoning behind this request is to recreate the original PvM experience where there is no warp command and where you need a party with specific roles to challenge those MVP monsters. Reliving this classic PvM experience would definitely bring some benefit to some players... but to most, the inconsistency between how those MVP monsters are killed compared to others that have the warp command enabled in their maps would be just a confusing inconvenience that's hard to justify especially that not everyone can play with others anytime they want considering our current server's population.

BTW thraca, @jump can also be used like @warp (ex: @jump 50 50). This part implied that you didn't know that:
thraca wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:12 am (but not @jump or @jumpback)
Thank you still thraca for bringing this discussion to light and thanks also to piggybank and emotang for expressing their opinions.

Topic closed
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